I recently saw a video debate between David Robertson and Alistair McBay

The only entertaining part of the debate are the numerous occasions where Robertson talks about all the great evidence for god’s existence, without ever mentioning the actual evidence itself. His crappy book lists the following 10 pieces of “evidence”: (source: http://bethinking.org/)

1. The Creation. By that I mean the heavens and the earth, from the smallest atom to the vastest galaxy. It all shouts to me of the glory of God. As I write I am sitting in my parent’s home in the Scottish Highlands overlooking the Dornoch Firth. The night is still and clear and in a moment I will go and clear my head and gaze up at the stars.

This it not proof, it is merely stating the obvious.. The universe and everything was created at some point, it does not prove that someone did it.. And if for some reason the creation of the universe required a creator, it would not favor the christian God any more than it favored Ymir, Nyx, Unkulunkulu or Xenu.

2. The Human mind and spirit. Why are we conscious? Why are we special? And life. Where does it come from? How can we get life from non-life?

I hardly expect Christians to be good judges of what constitutes evidence, it is after all not often evidence appear as a series of questions.. I’m almost disappointed. We are conscious because our brains have evolved (at least for some of us) that way. Who said we are special? How life can be created from inorganic and inanimate matter is a own field called abiogenesis.

3. The Moral Law. How do we know what good and evil is? Why do we have a sense of that at all?

Good and evil are subjective terms, that is different from person to person, culture to culture, religion to religion and changes with time. Most humans have a set of common morality like “dont kill people”, this nice deal probably started thousands of years ago when cavemen formed together to make small communities to improve the chances of survival.. These communities would be less efficient if people randomly killed eachother.

If we where to get our moral sense from the bible, then killing homosexuals, people who works on sundays, men who sleep with their stepmoms would all be morally good calls.

4. Evil. Unlike Dawkins I cannot believe in the innate goodness of human beings. I see too much evil and no explanation fits what I observe as neatly and realistically as the teaching of the Bible. More than that I find that the Bible also brings us the answer to evil – and I have never yet come across any philosophy which does so.

Wow.. Evil can be motivated by greed, jealousy, hatred, chemical imbalances in the brain, and is a interesting field for social anthropologists everywhere.. The fact that Robertson think the most realistic and “neat” explanation is that it’s all Satan’s fault and a bad choice of fruit really blows my mind. Still the existence of evil does not disprove or prove the existence of God.. It proves the existence of whatever it is YOU perceive as good or evil and the fact that you can label stuff.

5. Religion. Yes there is so much in religion that is wrong and in many ways I hate religion. Generally I think it is a human imitation that more often than not blocks the way to God rather than opens it. And yet it is an imitation of something that is real. As Augustine said, ‘Our hearts were made for you, O God, and they are restless until they find their rest in you.’

Finally, we have something in common.. I too hate religion but now to the WONDERFUL argument.. God is real BECAUSE “(religion) is an imitation of something that is real”. Wow.. Why did he not just make “it is real” his ONLY argument? it would have been a sure winner..

6. Experience. I believe because I have tasted that God is good. Of course we can be deluded in our experience (that is why we need to reflect). And we can be wrong in our knowledge. But it would be a strange kind of person who did not take into account their experiences as part of the whole package. Not long after I became a Christian I was visiting a ‘hippy’ home where amidst all the music and drugs paraphernalia there was a poster stuck on the wall. Its words have remained with me ever since: ‘All I have seen teaches me to trust the Creator for all that I have not seen’. Sure – answered prayer, that sense of God’s presence and that joy in worship may all have been illusory. But then again it may all have been real.

Personal experience and anecdotal evidence are always great ways of winning an argument, they are also great ways of selling alternative medicine.

All persons take into account their experiences, but not all people automatically assumes a deity is at work every time something statistically interesting happens.

“it may all have been real”.. Or maybe he was getting high from second hand marijuana smoking?

7. History. Again as I have continued to read and study history it has broadened my horizons and enables me to see in the words of the old cliché that it is ‘His Story’. The history of mankind makes a whole lot more sense when it is set in the context of the history of God.

The fact that mankind’s history makes much more sense to him, if there existed a God, does nothing more than prove that he is a poor historian who is unable to deal with the cause and effect, randomness, chaos and human unpredictability that makes up our rather interesting history.

8. The Church. I mentioned earlier that there are things in the Church that more than anything else have caused me to doubt. When you see Christians behaving in a way which would shame Satanists, when you see preachers being pompous, hypocritical, money and glory-grabbers, then it is enough to put you off Christianity for life. But I have also seen the other side. I have seen the most beautiful people (some of whom had been quite frankly ugly before their conversion) behave in the most wonderful, inexplicable ways. Inexplicable that is except for the grace and love of God. The Church at its best is glorious, beautiful and one of the best reasons to believe.

Yes, the church may have good and bad sides, and Robertson have apparently seen both sides.. This proves that Robertson can observe the world around him.. great job proving stuff..

And the fact that you don’t understand how people can change personality except for God’s love.. Each time an idiot gets a question that there is no apparent answer to, this is more than enough evidence that some god did it.

The Church at its worst is murderous, authoritarian, credulous, ugly and one of the best reasons to stick with reality.

9. The Bible. Again I mentioned problems that I have had and occasionally still have. But I can truthfully say this – that every year I read the Bible through at least once, that every day I try to read it and every week I study it in order to proclaim it. It has been a source of challenge, comfort, truth and renewal. I have no doubt that God speaks to me through it (and I don’t mean the kind of loopy ignoring of context or more esoteric interpretations). In fact, I am so assured of this, experiencing it continually, that I have very little time for Christians who are always looking for ‘extra words’ – as though the Bible were not enough. For me the thrill is still there.

Thank you for proving that you love the bible. That is really really interesting.

10. Jesus. I guess that any one of the above nine reasons would not be enough on their own – although I think their cumulative effect is overwhelming. But this is the icing on the cake. Actually no … this is the cake. Jesus is the reason I believe and will continue to believe:

Yes, the cumulative effect of the reasons above are not only overwhelming, they are STAGGERING, I can barely hold myself from screaming out in joy, accepting Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior..

‘In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things..(lots of crappy bible quotes)…..Would I really want to trade Jesus Christ for the Selfish Gene? No thanks. ‘For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ.’ Why would I swap the fullness of Jesus Christ for the emptiness of a universe and life without God?

Why would you swap the fullness of magical pony’s shooting rainbows of love at you from puffy clouds, with a sporadically hateful god who kills infants and tells you lots of things you can’t do, but most of his followers do anyway?

And why should you? The wonderful thing about Jesus Christ is that you cannot inherit him, he cannot be bought and you cannot earn him. He simply comes as a free gift to all who would receive him. I leave you with some words from another man who had his life changed by Jesus and I pray that you too will see, believe and be changed.

Why should you live in the real world? A good psychosis will get you anywhere. The magic pony’s also comes as a free gift, and they won’t judge you or send you to hell even if you DON’T believe in them.

I leave you with some words from one of the greatest thinkers of our time (who is also very handsome).

“David Robertson is a complete tool, he think he is so smart when bringing up his crappy half-baked arguments which are nothing more than a bunch of empty statements and his own personal opinions. He should be forbidden to ever use the word “Evidence” as he clearly has no idea of the meaning of the word. His statements about us atheists defining evidence in such a way that he can never prove something is bullshit. We don’t define evidence, you present the evidence which is either good evidence (makes sense, can be tested, can be falsified, etc.) or it is SHIT (old writings by unknown authors, vague metaphysical statements that you pull out of your ass, pseudo scientific nonsense).

What did this moron expect? that we would say ‘we will accept ANYTHING as evidence’, again Robertson obviously needs a goddamn dictionary. What if I where to complain that the criteria for evidence where unfair when trying to prove my magical rainbow pony theory? That people where narrow and closed minded because they did not take my buckets full of invisible magic pony hair as evidence?

If I did that, I would have to be a complete idiot.. Like Robertson”